Transcript Lessons Learned About USA / China Enterprises Cooperation

Ed Benjamin, Xiao Bin
Ultra Motor UK, Suzhou Phylion
艾德.本杰明, 肖斌
英国宇劲, 苏州星恒
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AECF (Now Ultra Motor USA), Suzhou Phylion,
and Wettsen Ebikes cooperated to produce a
high power, lithium ebike for USA Market.
Many problems occurred. Much money was
lost.
Many lessons were learned!
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AECF (现为宇劲美国),苏州星恒和玮辰电动车合作
为美国市场生产大功率的锂电池电动自行车。
出现了很多问题。损失了很多钱。
得到了很多宝贵的经验教训!
Fundamental Research
Engineering
Mass Production
Powder
Cell
Customized
Solutions
基础研究
工程
规模生产
粉末
电池
定制方案
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USA distributor , sold
to Ultra Motor
Experienced team –
Ed, Mike
Experienced
assembler – Wettsen
/ Percy
Ultra Motor Strong in
Indian Distribution,
Technical and Design
Team.
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Strong technical
resources – unusual
for distributor
USA Distribution
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美国经销商, 被宇劲收
购
经验丰富的团队– 艾
德.本杰明, 麦克.弗瑞
斯
经验丰富的整车厂–玮
辰/简敬修
宇劲在印度拥有优秀
的销售，技术和设计
团队
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技术资源强大– 一般
经销商不具有的优势
美国销售
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Taiwanese invested, Longkou location,
experienced builder of ebikes in Taiwan and
China.
Lee Iacoccoa experience.
Percy Chien, Mike Fritz, Ed Benjamin all
friends.
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由台湾投资，坐落于龙口，是台湾及大陆地区经验
丰富的电动自行车 制造商。
Lee Iacoccoa 经验。
简敬修,麦克.弗瑞斯, 艾德.本杰明是朋友。
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Heinzmann brand
German made motor.
24V, able to demand
high amperage
Chinese controller
from Wettsen
Battery from Phylion
– 36 V 10 AH LiManganese, with BMS,
packaging and
charger.
•
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•
Users are USA
people, taller,
heavier, than
Chinese.
Power on Demand,
not pedelec.
Often used in hills in
California.
Users not
knowledgeable about
ebikes.
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德国产Heinzmann
牌24伏电机，可承受
高电流量。
中国产玮辰控制器
星恒电池– 36 伏 10
安时锂锰电池, 带有
电池管理系统, 包装
和充电器。
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消费者是美国人，与
中国人相比更高，更
重。
随选动力式，而非助
踩式。
经常在加州的山区使
用。
消费者并不了解电动
自行车。
Product Development 2005….
We know a lot. We are strong. We
will create a new world. We are the
best. We are good partners.
产品开发 2005….
我们知道很多。 我们很优秀。我们可
以创造一个新世界。 我们是最棒的。
我们是很好的合作伙伴。
Late 2006 …Problems!
0 voltage battery
Product no
good！Supplier
No good!
BMS heating
BMS shutdown
2006年 年末…问题!
电池出现零电压
产品差！供应
商差!
BMS 发热
BMS 停止工作
AECF (UM) Blames Wettsen and Phylion
0 voltage battery
They should
solve the
problem, it is
their problem!
BMS heating
BMS shutdown
AECF (宇劲) 指责玮辰和星恒
电池出现零电压
他们应该解决这
个问题,这是他们
的问题!
BMS 发热
BMS 停止工作
Wettsen Blames Phylion,
Phylion Blames Wettsen and AECF!
0 voltage battery
They should redesign the
product to
reduce the cost.
BMS heating
BMS shutdown
玮辰指责星恒, 星恒指责玮辰和AECF!
电池出现零电压
他们应该重新设
计产品来降低成
本。
BMS 发热
BMS 停止工作
Conflict Between Partners
Stalls Solving the Problem!
0 voltage battery
BMS heating
We do need to
solve the problem.
We should work
together.
BMS shutdown
三方的争端拖延了问题的解决！
电池出现零电压
我们需要解决问题。
我们应该共同努力。
BMS 发热
BMS 停止工作
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Low voltage battery
Why low voltage battery?
Because the battery is over-discharged.
Why battery is over-discharged?
Because the data recorder continues to
consume the power.
Power consumption by data recorder should
have been part of original specifications. Why a
problem?
The work current of the data record is
twice higher than its spec. This was not
known before.
It is only 2 mA more. But it is twice the
spec, and causes big problem and loss of
money.
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电池低电压
为什么电池会出现低电压?
因为电池被过度放电。
为什么电池被过度放电?
因为数据记录仪继续耗电。
数据记录仪耗电应在原有规格中体现，为何会存在
问题？
数据记录仪的实际工作电流是原有规格的两
倍高。这一点以前并不清楚。
只高两毫安。但是原有规格的两倍, 造成大问
题和经济损失。
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BMS heating
Why BMS heating?
Soft ware and heat sink cannot handle
heat generated by BMS.
Why so much heat is produced inside BMS?
Because the current is higher than
expected.
Why BMS is designed like this?
The current information is wrong.
No enough good self-protect function in
BMS.
Original information is wrong, and
without additional testing, problem was
not foreseen.
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BMS 发热
为什么BMS 会发热?
软件和散热器无法应付 BMS产生的热量。
为何BMS内部会产生如此多的热量?
因为电流强度比预期要高。
为什么如此设计BMS?
电流相关信息错误。
BMS自我保护功能欠缺 。
原有信息错误，没有进一步的测试，未能预见
问题。
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BMS shutdown
Why BMS shut-down?
Because of the self-protection function of
the BMS.
Why self-protection inside BMS?
Because unlike other batteries, good
performance of lithium ion battery can only
be obtained during specific conditions of
charge / discharge.
BMS Design wrong for this customer.
Entire system (motor, controller, battery)
needed evaluation and testing.
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BMS停止工作
为什么BMS停止工作？
因为BMS的自我保护功能。
为什么BMS内部有自我保护功能?
因为不同于其它电池，锂离子电池只有在特
定的充放电条件下才能有良好表现。
为客户设计的BMS 错误 。整个系统 (电机, 控
制器, 电池) 需要评估和测试。
Solutions found, but costs are high for all partners!
Many Lessons
Learned. Costs of
Lessons Very
Large!
0 voltage battery solved.
BMS heating solved.
BMS shutdown no more.
找到了解决方案，但三方都付出了高代价！
吸取了很多教训!
教训的代价非常
高！
电池零电压问题解决。
BMS发热问题解决。
BMS停止工作问题解决。
Developing Communications,
Testing, Learning to Trust
Each Other, Working
Together…
0 voltage battery solved.
BMS heating solved.
BMS shutdown no more.
加强沟通, 测试,学会相互信任, 共
同努力…
电池零电压问题解决。
BMS发热问题解决。
BMS停止工作问题解决。
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Leadership was key. Bosses of all three companies good communicators,
determined to solve problems.
Created more communication – multi channel, multi level. Boss to boss,
technology person to technical person, sales people to sales people.
Question every detail. Listen to every answer carefully.
Improve testing and rely more on test data than opinion.
Bosses focused on keeping team going, keeping everyone thinking about
results – not who is to blame.
Face to face meetings in Suzhou, Longkou, Los Angeles helped a lot.
Everyone learning to admit mistakes and discuss honestly and focus on
how to fix.
Wettsen and Phylion willingness to spend money and effort to fix.
Group learned that many original ideas about specification and use
patter were wrong.
Change batteries and BMS several times. Still failing in field.
Finally…change battery cells to higher power that suits high power
motor. Add capacitor.
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领导是关键。 三方领导沟通能力强；有解决问题的决心。
更多的沟通和交流。 多渠道，多层面。领导之间, 技术人员之间，销
售人员之间。
询问每一个细节，仔细倾听每一个答案。
改进测试，更多的依靠测试数据，而非意见。
三方领导专注于保持团队前进，使每个人思考结果-而不是思考到底
是谁的问题。
在苏州，龙口，洛杉矶面对面的交流帮助很大。
每个人都学着承认错误，诚恳的交流，专注于如何解决问题。
玮辰和星恒愿意投入金钱和精力来解决问题。
三方意识到原来许多对规格和使用模式的认识是错误的。
数次更换BMS和电池 。在实际使用过程中仍出现问题。
最终…提高电池功率适应大功率电机。安装电容器。
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2 years of unsatisfactory sales in USA market.
Sale of company complicated by battery
problems.
New high power batteries working well but
expensive for Wettsen and Phylion
All three companies and all staff involved
much more capable than before!
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两年来美国市场的销售额不尽人意。
电池问题使公司出售复杂化。
新的大功率电池运行良好，但对玮辰和星恒是昂贵
的。
三家公司及参与员工的能力比以前大有提升！
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If we can learn from our mistakes and
experiences, we can benefit in the future.
AECF, Phylion and Wettsen have all learned a
lot.
Here are some of the lessons learned from
our experience and from other experiences at
Phylion, AECF and Wettsen.
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如果我们现在吸取经验教训，将来定会受益。
AECF, 星恒和玮辰都从中学到了很多。
下面是从这次经历以及星恒，AECF和玮辰的以往
经历中总结的经验教训。
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Battery must be
first determinant of
performance and
power.
Motor, Controller,
Battery must be
considered as one
system!
Not parts that can
be bolted together.
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电池是决定性能和功
率的第一要素。
电机，控制器和电池
必须作为整体通盘考
虑!
而非固定在一起的部
件。
Battery
(Phylion)
•10Ah/1C
•5Ah/2C (suspected root
cause for shut
down/turn on operation)
BMS (Phylion)
•Thermal relay
protection(75C)
•Over current
protection(30A) (Been
complained but not likely
by jump wired)
•Over discharge
protection (2.7V/cell)
(BMS variation suspected)
(EMC issue suspected)
Vehicle
Controller
(Wettsen)
•Over current protection
(Successful
functioned)(18A+/-2A
or more variation)
•Low voltage warning
(<33V)
•Low voltage cut
off(<31.5V) (12 sec
average calculation)
•Thermal relay protection
(Protection function been
removed)
Motor
(Wettsen)
(Heinzmann)
•32kph top speed with
12A current
consumption in normal
condition
•Thermal relay protection
(145C)(Protection function
been cut off)
•On vehicle 296
rpm/4.5A/40.4V noload
•Demagnetized by over
heat at non-gear side
suspected
•Over temperature failure
by large current over 10
cycles (20A/20min)
Battery
(Phylion)
•10Ah/1C
•5Ah/2C (suspected root
cause for shut
down/turn on operation)
BMS (Phylion)
•Thermal relay
protection(75C)
•Over current
protection(30A) (Been
complained but not likely
by jump wired)
•Over discharge
protection (2.7V/cell)
(BMS variation suspected)
(EMC issue suspected)
Vehicle
Controller
(Wettsen)
•Over current protection
(Successful
functioned)(18A+/-2A
or more variation)
•Low voltage warning
(<33V)
•Low voltage cut
off(<31.5V) (12 sec
average calculation)
•Thermal relay protection
(Protection function been
removed)
Motor
(Wettsen)
(Heinzmann)
•32kph top speed with
12A current
consumption in normal
condition
•Thermal relay protection
(145C)(Protection function
been cut off)
•On vehicle 296
rpm/4.5A/40.4V noload
•Demagnetized by over
heat at non-gear side
suspected
•Over temperature failure
by large current over 10
cycles (20A/20min)
BMS variation or
instability
Motor deteriorate
(demagnetized by
over heat or aging)
Electro Magnetic field
inference (from wire
harness arrangement
or power system
compatibility)
Cell unbalance
Trigger BMS
over discharge
protection
function
Other Minor reasons
(controller variation)
BMS variation or
instability
Motor deteriorate
(demagnetized by
over heat or aging)
Electro Magnetic field
inference (from wire
harness arrangement
or power system
compatibility)
Cell unbalance
Trigger BMS
over discharge
protection
function
Other Minor reasons
(controller variation)
Restore motor
thermostat (prevent
high temperature
demagnetize)
No Jump wire (keep
battery protection
function)
US side more statistic
information
High power battery
(eliminate capacity
decrease due to high C
discharge)
US office
more
detail
investigati
on
program
Larger Capacitor
(Help to prevent voltage
drop due surge current)
Larger Capacitor (Help
on EMC issue)
High power rating motor
(meet US customer
requirement and higher
efficiency, no over heat)
BMS over
discharge shut
down before
end of
capacity
Conduct full scale test
program before shipping
Restore motor
thermostat (prevent
high temperature
demagnetize)
No Jump wire (keep
battery protection
function)
US side more statistic
information
High power battery
(eliminate capacity
decrease due to high C
discharge)
US office
more
detail
investigati
on
program
Larger Capacitor
(Help to prevent voltage
drop due surge current)
Larger Capacitor (Help
on EMC issue)
High power rating motor
(meet US customer
requirement and higher
efficiency, no over heat)
BMS over
discharge shut
down before
end of
capacity
Conduct full scale test
program before shipping
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Bicycle Industry
model of buying
parts from many
sources – assembled
by non ebike experts
– does not work for
ebikes.
Electric system must
be integrated
carefully. Parts are
NOT interchangeable.
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Normal bicycle or
motorcycle
manufacturing ideas
do not work well for
ebikes.
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自行车的产业模式-多
处采购零部件，由非
电动自行车专家组装–
并不适用于电动自行
车。
电子系统必须仔细整
合。部件不可相互转
换。
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正常的自行车或摩托
车的制造理念并不适
用于电动自行车。
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Dropping supplier
after one problem
means all lose – no
chance to learn
from mistakes, and
no good alternative
suppliers that can
solve problem
instantly.
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出现一个问题便更换
供应商意味着没有机
会吸取教训，并且没
有其他供应商能够迅
速解决问题。
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Bike buyer may be
testing batteries,
but battery
company needs to
be testing the
proposed bike at
the same time.
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自行车买家也许会测
试电池，但电池厂家
同时也需要测试自行
车。
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Not just language.
Also internal
politics, cultural
differences,
technical issues.
Must consider and
work on all aspects
of communication –
find correct person,
find what is real
issue.
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不仅仅是语言。还有
公司政治,文化差异和
技术问题。
沟通必须从各方面着
手–找到正确的人和问
题的关键。
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Most expensive
cost is a failure in
the market.
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高昂的成本在市场中
会遭遇失败。
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Same testing
equipment, same
process, same way
of reporting results.
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同样的测试设备,同样
的测试过程, 同样的测
试结果表达方式。
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Lead Acid vs.
Lithium issues
Assemblers and
distributors usually
do not understand
Li batteries.
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Complexity
demands care and
caution.
Safety issues very
important.
Battery
Management
System, Charger
very important.
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铅酸 与锂
组装厂 和经销商通常
不了解锂电池。
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复杂性需要谨慎。
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安全问题非常重要。
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BMS和充电器非常重
要
Lead Acid Price Going Up
Lithium Price Coming Down
Lithium ion e-bike
battery, 2001
US$1.15 per watt hour
Lithium ion e-bike
battery, 2008
US$0.49 per watt hour
铅酸价格上升
锂价格下降
锂离子电动自行车电池
2001
每瓦时US$1.15
锂离子电动自行车电池
2008
每瓦时US$0.49
EC system
 Cathode
 Anode
 Electrolyte
 Interface
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Motor

Motor controller
Li ion Battery
Battery charger
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Li-ion Cell
Electrical
Performance
Safety
Cycle life
Calendar life
Module system
 Electrical Performance
 Safety
 BMS
 EMC
 Thermal management.
Test
 Electrical
performance.
 Safety test
 Life verification
 Combined life
Test
Models
 Battery model
 Thermal model
 Life Prediction
Model
 System model
EC 系统
 负极
 正极
 电解
 界面
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电机
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电机控制器
锂离子电池
电池充电器
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锂离子电池
电气性能
安全
循环寿命
使用寿命
模组
 电气性能
 安全性
 BMS
 EMC
 热管理
测试
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电气性能
安全性测试
寿命确认
综合寿命测试
模型
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电池模型
热模型
寿命预测模型
系统模型