Transcript Socrates - Glow Blogs

• A woman is raped but decides she doesn’t
want an abortion because killing is wrong
and killing is forbidden in her religion.
• A man thinks it is alright to kill another
man, because he broke into his house
and threatened him with a gun.
What makes something good?
Outcome?
Intention?
Something else?
‘The
unexamined
life is not
worth living.’
Socrates
Socrates: a biography
• Born 469 BCE in Athens, Greece.
No recorded works, yet one of
history’s most influential philosophers.
We know of Socrates through the writings
of his student Plato.
Often described as rotund and ugly, he
was known for talking to anyone and
engaging them in philosophical debate.
His commitment to philosophy meant
that personal hygiene came second
place- he was often barefoot and dirty
and had very few possessions.
Socrates aim was not
to tell others the truth –
he often claimed to be
ignorant of it himself –
but rather to help them
discover it for
themselves as best
they could.
The Euthyphro Dilemma is a response
to Divine Command Theory
Divine Command Theory
If God commands something then it is good.
1. God is always right
2. If God appears to be wrong, refer to
point 1 above.
Theists position
Goodness intrinsic to God
Divine Command Theory
• Something is morally good if and
only if God approves of it.
• An action performed by a person
is morally right if and only if the
action is what God commands or
desires a person to do at that time
Example
• I just whacked myself on the head with
a book. Was that the right thing to do?
• If God wished me to do it at that time
then yes!
• If God didn’t want me to do it at that
time it wasn’t.
God’s approval is what makes a thing a good
action
So this means:
• Morality is nothing more than God’s
pronouncements, commandments and
attitudes.
• In short, If an action is right, it is right
because God commands it.
Problem with DCT
• God’s commands could be arbitrary no matter
what other feature the action has.
• E.g. If god commands me to donate a large
amount of funds to the Pakistan Flood fund =
morally right.
• If God commands me to kill another person =
morally right.
The Alternative
Things are good or actions are right on grounds
independent from God’s commandments
• It is not God’s commandments that make
actions right or things good.
• Instead It is because they are right or Good
that God commands them
Problem
• Something else besides God makes things
good or bad, right or wrong.
So shouldn’t we be more concerned with
what this something else is?
• It makes God’s commandments more of a
“handy guide”
The Euthyphro Dilemma
 A very famous argument in moral
thinking between Socrates and
Euthyphro found in Plato’s The Last
Days of Socrates.
 It kicked off when Socrates asked
Euthyphro what he thought was ‘good’.
Why Euthyphro?
• Euthyphro was taking his
father to court for the
mistreatment of a slave (must
know about morality).
• Socrates was on trial for the
‘crime’ of stirring up trouble in
the city’s youth – facing the
death penalty.
•Socrates was going
to be executed for
doing something
‘wrong’ so wanted to
find out what ‘wrong’
actually meant.
The Euthyphro Dilemma
• During the debate Euthyphro suggests
that what is ‘good’ is what the gods would
be pleased with…
Socrates ends the argument
by asking Euthyphro…
Are actions ‘good’ simply
because the gods
command them …
Or
Do the gods command
certain actions because
they are ‘good’?
or
The Dilemma
 Should religious people do
things their god(s) commands
them to do even if they
otherwise think what they’re
being asked to do is wrong?
Role of the gods?
• The issue raised by the
Euthyphro Dilemma
means that either:..
– the gods are Experts on
the rules of morality and
will instruct us on how to
be ‘good’
– the gods are Engineers
and construct the rules
of morality and decide
what is ‘good’
Describe the Euthyphro Dilemma
(4KU)
4min
Describe the Euthyphro Dilemma
(4KU)
• Plato told the story
• Socrates and Euthyphro at court, Socrates being
charged with impiety
• Socrates attempts to find out what is ‘good’
• Euthyphro suggests that ‘good’ is what the gods
are pleased with
• Socrates counters: are actions ‘good’ because
the gods command them or do the gods
command certain actions because they are
‘good’
• Either the role of the gods is as experts who
instruct us on morality or as engineers who
construct morality for us.
What issues are
raised by the
Euthyphro
Dilemma?
If the gods are Experts…
• So if God is a moral expert, there must be some
set of moral facts about which he is an expert.
And these facts cannot depend on him for their
truth or falsehood.
• This implies there is something above / beyond
God
If the gods are Engineers…
• This interpretation makes morality dependent
on the gods. This implies that everything is
morally neutral prior to God's approval.
• What if he approves of something that seems
terrible, such as genocide?
Euthyphro’s Problem
• Suppose Euthyphro was hanging about and
hears a godlike voice telling him to kill the next
person who passes him. He is convinced he
has heard the voice of the gods and he has
been brought up always to obey the commands
of the gods, because they only command what’s
right. Should he kill?
• Even if he thinks it is wrong (which he does)
surely the gods wouldn’t command it if it was
wrong?
What issues are raised by the
Euthyphro Dilemma? (4KU)
• The main issue raised is the
relationship between the gods and
morality.
• If the gods are engineers morality is
arbitrary – on a whim.
• If the gods are experts morality is
independent (and therefore ‘above’
the gods).
So how do religious people ‘hear’
from their god(s)?
 Directly as a voice/vision or a sense of
presence.
 Indirectly through the interpretation of something
that happened.
 An answer to a prayer.
 The study of sacred texts.
 The teachings of a member of the faith group.
 Historical teachings.
To what extent can these means be trusted?
Socrates: a biography
• The trial and execution of Socrates,
dramatized by Plato, has inspired many
thinkers and artists through the centuries.
• Considered to be a dangerous and
subversive influence, he was eventually
arrested and charged with refusing to
acknowledge the gods of the state,
introducing new ones and corrupting the
young.
The Last Days of Socrates
• Socrates never found a
solution to the Euthyphro
dilemma and what makes
something ‘good’
• The Athens court could
not explain what was
‘good’ either, but
nevertheless Socrates
was sentenced to death.
• Socrates was condemned
to death by drinking
hemlock, he refused a
chance to escape and,
surrounded by his friends,
embraced death with great
dignity.
• Socrates died in 399BCE,
Athens.
The Death of Socrates, by Jacques-Louis David (1787).
Plato
Following the execution of
Socrates, Plato left Athens in
disgust. He travelled in Italy,
Sicily and Egypt before returning
to Athens to found his Academy
in 377BCE.
 The Academy was the
Western’s world’s first university.
Many great intellectuals were
schooled there, including
Aristotle.
Discussion
• If there was such
a thing as god(s)
do you think he /
she / it / they
would command
you to do
something which
was wrong?
Morality and Killing
Is killing right or wrong?
Would god(s) command it?
This depends on who you ask…
Some people say that ‘no killing’ is an
absolute rule – it never wavers and
always applies.
Other people say that ‘no killing’ depends
on lots of things and so it is a relative rule
– it depends on the situation.
Time Out!
Is there anything
which you think is
always wrong no
matter what?
Or, is what’s right
and wrong related
to the situation?
Some possible responses!
 It is wrong in theory to kill, but sometimes the
situation demands it.
 It is wrong in theory to kill and so it is wrong to
do it no matter what the situation.
 It is theoretically right to kill in certain situations
and so right to actually do so.
 It is theoretically right to kill in certain situations
but is actually wrong to do so.
• NB: this also applies to those who have
viewpoints independent from religious beliefs.
Discussion
 Is it more
important to do
the right thing
if you believe
in an afterlife?
What issues are raised by the
Euthyphro Dilemma? (4KU)
4min